Since most Christians do not understand the purpose of punishment, and view it as vindictive, senseless, and endless torture to be administered by God, George Hawtin found it necessary to expose the utter ridiculousness of the false teaching of eternal torture in this short quote. They are strong words which will cause all who embrace that teaching to consider the asininity of having embraced something which so pitifully attempts to represent the character and nature of our Heavenly Father.
Here is the quote...
According to George Hawtin:
The following words by George Hawtin are most challenging:
';The established visible Church has preached its multiplied sermons seeking to prove its tradition that the vast majority of God's human creation will be LOST, finally, irrevocably, and eternally, and not only will they be lost to God forever and ever, but they will be given up to the most sadistic, inhuman, ungodly torments that could be devised by the vilest fiends. According to the tradition of the Church this hellish torment is to fall upon all who do not believe. It matters not a whit whether they had opportunity to believe or not. It matters not at all if they were born in the darkest jungles of Africa, the swamps of Borneo, or the deserts of India or China. The fact that they never heard there was a God will be no excuse whatever. The fact that they never heard that God had a Son will not impede their dreadful destruction. Heathen who never heard that God had a Son are, according to this teaching, faced with the same dreadful doom as men who heard the Gospel from their birth and yet rejected it. To add to the stupidity of their teaching they make pitiful attempts to prove that this is the justice of God and that God is manifesting His love in the punishment of sin. The doctrine of eternal punishment is based on a literal interpretation of some of the metaphors of Scripture, to the complete neglect of many other Scriptures. No doctrine has ever been propounded with more confidence and greater bitterness nor with a grossness and coarseness more hideous and repugnant, and, in the face of the love and kindness of God, more inconceivable and incredible'; -end quote.Is it possible that the teaching of eternal torture is false?
Why do people keep asking if things are possible? In an infinite universe anything anyone can possibly imagine, no matter how ill conceived or in contradiction to observable phenomena, is possible, rational understanding is about restricting ourselves to the likeliest or most probable explanations. This means that, yes, since it is physically possible to image what you say, then it is possible.
As to the ';probability'; of there being a hell, that is based on Biblical authority as interpreted, edited, and revised by the Churches for centuries to their own political and financial advantage. In response to them I offer a quote from Thomas Paine, ';When I see throughout this book, called the Bible, a history of the grossest vices and a collection of the most paltry and contemptible tales and stories, I could not so dishonor my Creator by calling it by His name.';Is it possible that the teaching of eternal torture is false?
The only people who ask ';is it possible'; are defense attorneys and others who do not want to know the truth - is it POSSIBLE?
Puh-lease.
Yes it is - no it isn't - do we know any more than we did a moment ago?
It's POSSIBLE that Yahoo Answers is run by a giant green octopus -
I don't think so, but clearly it is misunderstood. You think that the doctrine is that if you don't believe a specific set of doctrines then you will be punished by a vengeful God.
I think this is wrong. I think that the doctrine is a warning, that we are self condemned to separation from God, unless we seek him and turn from our rebellion. God will always be found by the one who seeks. It is a loving God who warns us that we are headed in the wrong direction and who simply asks us to change our thinking (repent) and to give up our rights to ';be'; gods.
Ignorance of the Truth of ourselves is the ';source'; of sin.
As Baird Spalding indicates in the reference, ';In the second chapter of Genesis we have a wrong translation that has done much toward our erroneous idea of sin and the matter of inheritance. It does not mean that man sinned and thereby became mortal and this mortality was handed on down to the rest of us. It did not intend to convey that the sin reversed man's nature but that the sin itself could have been reversed, that it could have been corrected. At that time it merely meant an error could be corrected. Jesus taught the remission of sin rather than its perpetuation with consequent results. Mistakes can be REVERSED is the teaching.'; Spalding goes on to say, ';The law of the spirit does not move to punish sin but to release man from the effects of his mistakes. The wrong procedure is to be corrected, not that man is supposed to endure the results of his error. Man's nature cannot be reversed for he always remains a spiritual being. He can only reverse his notion of himself. Instead of doing this, he should reverse his mistaken idea that he is a material being and retain the truth that he is a spiritual being created in the image and likeness of God.';
WE ARE PERFECT EVEN AS OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT......
.....because the Creator created US and ALL the principles of Life out of His Own perfect, Divine pattern.
......whether you know that this is so, whether you do not believe this is so, or whether you are ignorant that this is so.
鈥?and as also indicated in the reference, ';Perfection does not come from projecting our own ideas but from awakening to the knowledge that it is already the established order of things.';
That is the lesson we can learn from Adam and Eve鈥?
Perfection, Itself created US perfectly.....though most of us have yet to appreciate the awesome majesty of our created state. But we are learning.....
I AM THAT I AM AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO OTHER.
2+2=4 and beside 4 there is no other answer.
The same SOURCE who created the perfect principles of mathematics which operate immutably to create ONLY 4 as the correct sum of 2+2 ALSO CREATED US out of perfect principles!! Though we were ALL lovingly and perfectly created by our Father with PERFECT qualities, WE have chosen to act as if they could be utilized inconsistently with their original purpose.
Sin is erroneously believing or acting as if 2+2=4 AND equals 5.
Truth is as obvious as 2+2 can NEVER be 4 AND also 5.
And precisely like that equation, you can NEVER be ANYONE but yourself (there is no other ';answer'; as you). 4 is the ONLY PERFECT answer.
As perfectly created Spiritual Beings, having, and exercising the ability to question and explore the spiritual, scientific principles of Creation and come to our OWN correct OR incorrect conclusions does not detract from its perfection (or OURS) one whit! No sooner than we correct the mistaken perception inside ourselves, and apply the solution....that the benefit leads to further experience to correctly apply the principles that YOU KNOW are now a permanent part of you. That's a good thing!!
We are absolutely free to choose to believe that 2+2=5 for as long as we want. We may (or may not) recognize that we have MADE A MISTAKE, in perception or conduct, certainly. Regardless, the consequences of INCORRECTLY applying the PERFECT principles governing this mathematics equation are inescapable....but correctable. It is only when the correct perception IS CORRECTLY APPLIED, that the resultant ';answer'; enables us to declare the truth of that experience to ourselves. The consequences of CORRECTLY applying the principles of mathematics (or those governing our own Being) are ALSO inescapable, to our eternal good.
THIS is the operative principle behind ';Ye shall reap what you sow';.....for good or ill.
As a matter of Truth, the ONLY way you'd know if you have made a mistake in perception or operation is BECAUSE the principles of Life operate perfectly, without the slightest deviation, variation, or attenuation at ANY time or in ANY place for ANYBODY!
Otherwise, you would not know what electricity perfectly does FOR you when you utilize it correctly. Or you wouldn't know what electricity perfectly does TO you when operated incorrectly, either.
If you consider this carefully, what is referred to as, goodness including love, patience, kindness, self-control, faithfulness and gentleness';, is analogous to what the immutable principle of electricity does FOR you when operated consistent with its purpose.
Conversely, what is referred to as ';The acts of our brokenness, hatred, discord, sexual immorality, dissensions, greed, laziness, hatred, jealousy, fits of rage, drunkenness, envy, selfish ambition and the like.....'; are analogous to what the immutable principle of electricity does TO you when it is operated incorrectly.
This is about G I G O.....
Garbage in, garbage out....perfectly !!
Perfect input, perfect output....perfectly !!
NOT BECAUSE there is inherent EVIL in US!
NOT BECAUSE there is inherent EVIL in God's Creation.
NOT BECAUSE we are flawed or ';born in sin and full of sin';.
It is because the infinite SYSTEM of which we are an inseparable part operates flawlessly and impartially....
It is because this infinite SYSTEM was created by the same Source Who created perfect principles of Life, such as mathematics which operate undeviatingly to create ONLY 4 as the answer to 2+2.
The gift in BEING FREE to make mistakes (in other words, to be wrong) is precisely so that you can LEARN HOW TO CORRECT THEM....not in being penalized (going to hell) for making mistakes. This is how we learn to manifest 4 by adding 2 plus 2, and by recognizing that 4 is the correct solution in EVERY instance.
When you realize that you have made a mistake in a mathematical operation, what do you do?
You correct the mistake, right?
We are no more obligated to beat ourselves up for making mistakes than we are required to keep making the same mistake over and over and over again.
After the mistake is corrected and the answer is revealed, we must acknowledge to ourselves that this is so.
.....and then, go on to the next problem in our perception that needs correction.
Moreover, we are no more required to keep making the same mistake (sin) over and over again than we are obligated to REMAIN unaware of the correct answer (the Truth about ourselves) for ever and ever !!
We can choose to believe that 2+2=5 for eternity until we have acquired FOR OURSELVES the necessary knowledge of the immutable principle that correctly sums the answer.
Please understand that I am only using this mathematical example as a metaphor for THAT which is not only real, but is also true, and which ALSO cannot change.
Truth CANNOT change. ONLY our perception and APPLICATION of it can.....
THAT'S why it does not matter what we believe. Beliefs change.
It only matters that we KNOW and ACT UPON THAT WHICH IS TRUE and NEVER CHANGES.
The Creator Himself IS the VERY pattern by which mankind was made. Our Father also created Jesus just as He created us...the exact Spirit and Likeness of Himself. Jesus' message and reason for coming to this earthly dimension was to show us, in as stark, as uncompromising, and as definitive a manner as possible, that we are as He is, which is as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, Spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. We are NOT physical beings. We are Spiritual Beings like He is!
Believing or acting as if we are physical, dying, imperfect Beings instead of the perfect, immortal, Spiritual beings we were created to be, and ARE....is like erroneously accepting that 2+2 CAN be 4 and also 5.
There is an inescapable consequence to this perception, which is, simply, that you remain in error (in ignorance) of the truth, until you realize it AND act accordingly with it. As soon as we correct the error, that act ERASES the effect of the ignorance immediately so that we SEE and EXPERIENCE for ourselves the FACT which has been perfectly and ALWAYS true even BEFORE we were aware of our error.
We see that the correct answer NEVER CHANGED AT ALL......nor, in all Reality, have we! Do you see?
Is it not obvious that whether you KNOW or DO NOT KNOW that you are in error, and continue to proceed erroneously, anyway, that the correct answer (Truth) is not in the slightest bit affected?
A lie (false perception) believed CAN NEVER be the Truth !! Ask Adam and Eve if a false perception believed could ever be the Truth.
But the ADVERSE EFFECT upon your perception of Truth remains, doesn't it? The correct answer CAN NEVER come out of erroneous perception or operation.
ONLY CORRECTING THE ERROR IN PERCEPTION AND APPLICATION CAN DO THIS !!
G I G O.....perfectly !!
Can there be ANYTHING more obvious than that we are best served when we work with the UN-changing Truth of our Being, not with EVER-changing beliefs about who we think we are?
I'd say that's a pretty good way to learn about the wonder of our Selves and especially about the Giver of such a gift as the capability to make mistakes. Through such a gift, you realize how serious our Creator is to have us freely discover the Absolute Truth about ourselves, FOR ourselves....
Ignorance of the unchangeable Truth of ourselves (that we are perfectly created) is the cause of sin, PRECISELY like ignorance of the perfect operation of a mathematical equation ALWAYS and INVARIABLY produces incorrect results. The solution can only be experienced when we recognize AND apply the Truth to ourselves or to the equation.
....which always ';adds up'; to original perfection....not original sin....
It would be beneath the Majesty of the Divine All Knowning, All Aware, All Wise, Creator of of everything to punish the creation for eternity.
It would be a cruel amusement. Surely the Creator of everything including intelect, humour, %26amp; entertainment could find something more amusing.
Anything is possible
It is impossible that its true, forget its possibility of being false.
It is balanced with eternal a holy reward and unimaginable joy.
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