...and I'm just curious, since so many of you anti-Catholics claim this, exactly where, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, does it teach that we are saved by our works? Because if it's not there, it's obviously not Catholic belief, and thus if it's not there, you are lying. So if you're not and if you actually know what you're talking about and didn't just hear it from your bigoted pastor and blindly believe it, where, exactly, does the Catechism state that salvation is by works and faith is irrelevant?So apparently Catholics teach a ';false gospel of works';?
They won't be able to find it because the Catechism doesn't say it. EVER. We are saved by the Precious Blood of Jesus, shed on the Cross as the perfect Sacrifice for our sins -- same as all of our Protestant brothers and sisters.
And just because we don't buy into the unscriptural doctrines of ';Sola Fide'; and ';Once saved, always saved,'; that doesn't mean that we believe in a gospel of works, either. We know we can't buy our way into Heaven, and we *also* know that God expects us to obey His commandments and take care of His people.That doesn't mean that we think we can work our way to Heaven.
Good luck getting some of the fundamentalists to shut up long enough to listen, though. I swear, some of them act like they have learning disabilities.So apparently Catholics teach a ';false gospel of works';?
But the anti-Catholics neglect to say that the Catholic Church also teaches you need Grace and Faith as well not just works. And never taught works alone. In other words The Catholic position on salvation can be summed up thus: We are saved by Christ's grace alone, through faith and works done in charity inspired by the Holy Spirit.
';faith alone'; formula is umbilical language. The phrase ';faith alone'; (pisteus monon) appears in the New Testament only once-in James 2:24-where it is rejected.
The ONLY point of unity of the Protestant churches is in their hatred of the Catholic Church. Unity in hate
Not all Protestants bear this kind of false witness against their Catholic neighbour,many know the truth but do not get involved in disputes with Catholics.
The main antagonists are hardened evangelicals and quasi-Christian sects like the JW`s who I regard as simply religious gossips, they spend more energy on protesting than living the Gospel themselves, for if they concentrated on what the Bible instructs them to, they would realize that they are in opposition to the commandment that prohibits bearing `False Witness` against thy neighbour!
God bless.
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
This is saying that God starts the process of salvation by His grace but we finish the process by OUR GOOD WORKS.
Look it up in Catechism of the Catholic Church SECOND EDITION. Its number 2008.
You are so right. I use to attend a once saved always saved church and they made my child memorize Ephesians 2:8-9 but omitted verse 10.
Most anti-catholics believe that we believe what they think we believe instead of what we show them we believe.
Unfortunately, there are a few saved-only denominations that cherry pick the scriptures and ignore the fact that Paul's condemnation of works has to do with the Law of Moses and the Jews who believed that the Law brings salvation.
They also believe in bearing false witness out of ignorance of the fact that Catholics (and other of their ';works only brings salvation'; claimed religions) actually teach Faith + Works are fully dependent upon the grace of God and Jesus. It is _not_ works only, as is falsely misrepresented.
The faith-only saves ignore the teaching of Jesus that all will be judged (the parable of the talents) and the admonition of Paul to the Thessalonians that they are to ';work our [their] salvation in fear and trembling.'; If faith-only saves, then why did Paul teach this to the Thessalonians or Jesus give us the parable of the talents?
Unfortunately, the Catechism is ambiguous on good works. It does recognize that good works are essential for salvation for non-Christians:
';Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation'; (CCC 847).
Jesus is much clearer. Christ himself certainly went out of his way to stress the necessity of good works for our salvation. He warned us, ';Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven'; (Matt. 7:21). Praising good works, he said, ';Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is very great in heaven'; (Matt. 5:12). He declared that such good works, or the absence of them, will be a deciding factor in the Last Judgment. Then he will say, ';Come, you blessed . . . for I was hungry and you fed me,'; or ';Depart you cursed, for I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat'; (Matt. 25:34, 41). How can it be said that salvation is ';wholly without works'; if, for lack of good works, it can be forfeited?
Cheers,
Bruce
The objection by protestants of the teachings of Jesus about helping others is due to the fact that they want to treat people badly and still think they're saved.
They're loutish and lazy and think they can take the name of god in vain to use as a stinky weapon.
Anyone who thinks that following Jesus would necessarily entail loving others, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, for widows and orphans as Jesus clearly stated, is a threat to their TV time and must be demonized.
Catholics are saved thru Grace, the free gift of God: to attain grace, we will love God above all, have faith + good works together, obey the 10C, love our neighbors etc which took the Church 2000 years of teachings.
Ignore David/Chris, he is not a protestant, but a new age minister who was born with an only mission in life, to defile his own Holy Mother Catholic Church. Classic example of bad faith and bad works.
Protestants(you may have noticed) do not even use the term protestant very much anymore instead it`s Christian this and that, and this too is an indication of how they revile the Catholic church, for in hijacking the term they are making the point that they alone are the church and Catholicism is something alien!
Catholics do believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven but we must put our belief into action like preaching the good news of God. Sadly, anti catholics and Protestants intend to snipe and bombard the catholic church instead of preaching the good news of the LORD to every nation.
Those teaching a ';false'; gospel are those who prefer to ignore the gospel of James. Read James 2:14 - 26
It's just so much easier to just say the magic words than have to DO anything so they ignore their own scripture.
The anti-Catholics will say anything to make the Catholic Church look bad. They twist the truth and even spread outright lies just to bash the Catholics.
One should never take fundies too seriously. Especially in subjects they know nothing about.
Everyone wants to be right. Just don't listen to people who constantly talk down other religions to make their look more ';Right';
Some people are selfish and lazy, I am thinking.
Nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say that one saved always saved is mentioned in the Holy Bible.In Fact Jesus Christ our God and Messiah tell us that if we were to say Lord Lord But do not do the will of his Father which is his will too,then our words are nothing and only empty promises
Saint Paul also says that Faith that does not bear fruits is uuselessMany Protestants will use his writings Saint Paul to the Romans that because Christ died for our sins on the Cross we are saved but they also forgot that Adam and Eve were the first chosen people of God.God gave them freewill but they ate the Fruit of Evil
Many Protestants claim to believe in Original Sins.But yet they ignore free will that God has given them and slander Roman Catholic Church.Are they not the Phrasees who tried to stone Mary of Magdalena.Do they not have their own sins.The Roman CAtholic Church has made it clear that Works is our most blessed reflection of Faith
The Book of James says it clearly That if we have faith but we see our Brother hungry and wthout food and we wished him well HAve we done our jobs as Christains
No wonder you Protestants are what Saint Paul called you
'Cretans are always liars; they are evil beasts and slothful gluttons
Free grace is not Biblical and luckily at the Council of Trent we rejected the false hersies of Sola Scripture only
Ephesian 2:10 is right
Yours in Christ
@Joseph: you don't even understand that verse, do you? This is not your interpretation we are looking at but what is truly meant by the Scriptures. In other words your incorrect assumptions are meaningless, what matters is the message that God has within these verses.
These verses are from my Catholic Bible:
For by grace you are saved through faith (and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God) (v)Not of works, that no man glory. [Eph. 2, 8-9]
(v) Saint Augustine in his writings explain: ';It is said, not of works as thine, of thyself being unto thee, but as those in which God hath made, formed, and created thee.';
(Also the key words are ';by grace';)
Maybe you should look at what is really being said when looking at the next verse:
For we are his work, created in Christ JESUS in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. [Eph. 2, 10]
~~~~~~~~~~~
By grace you are saved through faith. ] Our first justification is of God's grace, and not of our deservings: because none of all our actions that were before our justification, could merit or justly procure the grace of justification. Again, he saith, through faith: for that faith is the beginning, foundation, and root of all justification, and the first of all other virtues, without which it is impossible to please God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clement of Rome (First Century) : But let us not give up the practice of good works and love. God Himself is an example to us of good works.
';What shall we do, then, brethren? Shall we become slothful in well-doing, and cease from the practice of love? God forbid that any such course should be followed by us! But rather let us hasten with all energy and readiness of mind to perform every good work. For the Creator and Lord of all Himself rejoices in His works. For by His infinitely great power He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible wisdom He adorned them. He also divided the earth from the water which surrounds it, and fixed it upon the immoveable foundation of His own will. The animals also which are upon it He commanded by His own word134 Or, “commandment.” into existence. So likewise, when He had formed the sea, and the living creatures which are in it, He enclosed them [within their proper bounds] by His own power. Above all,135 Or, “in addition to all.” with His holy and undefiled hands He formed man, the most excellent [of His creatures], and truly great through the understanding given him— the express likeness of His own image. For thus says God: “Let us make man in Our image, and after Our likeness. So God made man; male and female He created them.”136 Gen. i. 26, 27. Having thus finished all these things, He approved them, and blessed them, and said, “Increase and multiply.”137 Gen. i. 28. We see,138 Or, “let us consider.” then, how all righteous men have been adorned with good works, and how the Lord Himself, adorning Himself with His works, rejoiced. Having therefore such an example, let us without delay accede to His will, and let us work the work of righteousness with our whole strength.';
134 Or, “commandment.”
135 Or, “in addition to all.”
136 Gen. i. 26, 27.
137 Gen. i. 28.
138 Or, “let us consider.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bible teaches that both faith and good works are necessary for salvation. http://www.catholicapologetics.net/39.ht…
Maybe you should also read; WHAT FAITH REALLY MEANS http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo… %26amp; YOU SHALL DO PENANCE FOR YOUR SINS: http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo…
Good articles.
You have some real good answers to this one. But let me say, If these evangelists had to do something other than read the bible and change what they don't like in it, they would fail. These are people that haven't done a true days work in their lifetime and get lots of money for doing nothing. They have made a career out of religion. And who wouldn't want to go to a happy happy church. Where everything is candy and balloons, oh they do say some things that need to be said, but they are all like an Amway meeting. Hype them up get their money and send them home.
Forget the True Presence that is in every Catholic Church and we receive every time we go to mass. This was also in Jesus' teachings. Where do they do this in these fly-by-night churches, they are completely void of this. If you are going to teach the bible and preach the bible, you better teach it all or nothing. Just thought I'd get my two cents in thanks, God bless you.
I have talked to many Catholic friends. Catholics who appear to attend church on a regular basis.
I ask them ';Have you accepted Christ's death as payment for your sins?'; . Most say ';yes';, while some don't really understand what I am talking about.
I then ask the group who answered in the affirmative if they think they are going to Heaven. * All * of them answered. ';Well, I hope so. I've been pretty good.';
Why do they say this? Is their particular church teaching a gospel that is not in line with traditional Catholicism? If so, then you have some churches in * deep * trouble.
You've got to wonder about what they are being taught when * I * have more confidence in their salvation than they do themselves.
im not catholic but the catholics has changed some things in the bible to fit there religion but in the bible (Ephesians 2:8-9) says were are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is the Gift of God 9 not of works if any man should boast
All religions teach false gospels. No big deal.
we Seek the Truth in God's Word and Law,as God tells us to do, why don't you? it has been soooo many years since I was a catholic, so I am unable to find my lil book of catechism (false doctrine and man made traditions) but I have actually read from catholics ';here'; you all believe your saved by works, so there must be as usual and typical, more confusion in your teachings, something else I've noticed here, is most catholics are quick an' easy to anger and throw out vulgarity, lacks any self control whatsoever, why is that? whose the ';bigot'; and ';blinded'; here? God Bless and Keep You
p.s. indeed the early RCC did in fact corrupt and change God's Word and Law, I'll give ya one: the Sabbath(7th day) to sun day so pagan's would come to their fine building and create more wealth by offerings, you can ask your priest, he knows, the rest is up to you to Seek and Find
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